Hello and welcome to the Electric and Eclectic podcast show with Roger Atkins and some truly smart and amazingly interesting guests.
Speaker 2:You're Christina Bu and you're head of the Norwegian EV Association.
Speaker 3:Seeing is believing, and I think that's probably the most important sort of success story when we talk about Norway is that Norway has shown that it's possible. Are you sitting?
Speaker 1:comfortably, then we'll begin.
Speaker 2:This is a long overdue podcast. I'm going to apologize to you, the listener, and certainly to my guest, that I haven't had Christina Bu on well before now. Christina, will you accept my apology for leaving it so long to have you as our guest on the Electric and Eclectic podcast show.
Speaker 3:Well, I have to think about it. No, I'm just joking. Well, we've done other things together with Roger, so I'm OK.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, Well, indeed, let's just tell everybody we have worked together closely. You know I'm an admirer of what you do. You've said some kind things about my LinkedIn life I suppose I call it. But let's not have a mutual appreciation society. Let's help people with some really interesting facts about what's been going on in Norway, which undisputably is the real epicenter of the electric vehicle revolution, when you look at the proportion of the population that have been buying, driving, loving everything electric vehicles. So so let's explain what you do. I know I'll briefly say what that is and you expand a bit on that. Please, Christina, and tell, tell the listener what it is you do, your Christina Boo and your head of the Norwegian EV association. So what does that mean exactly?
Speaker 3:Yeah, we organise drivers of electric cars. We have more than 120,000 members in Norway, mostly proud people, proud persons, but also companies who have electric cars and who both want to support our work and also we offer them benefits and solutions. That is valuable for an EV driver. So what we do is, in one way, twofold it's trying to save the world in that way, but trying to have electrification happen as fast as possible, because that's what it's all about. It will happen. In my mind, there's no doubt this will happen anyway, but we need to have it happen fast. And on the other hand, we are there for our members, helping them. We have, for example, a customer service where people can call and email us, ask us questions about charging, for example. We offer them a roaming solution on charging. We benefits and also a lot of communication and information and help.
Speaker 3:But when it comes to saving the world, it's a lot has to do with talking to politicians, being in the media, especially when debates arise, which they do in every country. There are always a lot of myths and there are a lot of different opinions and, especially when someone feels threatened, there's always some discussions going on, and then we can always be there with our side of the story. The facts and the figures and what we can sort of add to a discussion is often very valuable in a debate like this, because it definitely has been over the years in Norway. So there's been lots of discussions and debates and very often it hasn't just been about getting new policies in place but also keeping the policies that we have there for long enough.
Speaker 2:Right? Well, that's a quick run through. Can I ask you a few but fairly direct, but I think, questions that would be on the listener's mind? So, for example, is this a government organization? Is it independent? Who pays for it? How many in your team? How does this actually work then as an organization or a business?
Speaker 3:It would be very independent. We are a non-governmental organization we consist of, so we're owned by the members really. So we're non-profits and the members pay a yearly fee to be a member and that money goes into serving our members but also working politically and so on. So we're a bit more than 50 people working here and in addition, we have volunteers around the country, mostly men in their 40s, 50s, 60s that are engaged in oh, people like me then.
Speaker 1:Yes exactly.
Speaker 3:There are women as well, but, yeah, volunteers that do make us visible locally and help us be visible also in the different regions of Norway. One example is the Finmark Ivi Association, which is very north of Norway. They make really cool videos showing that Ivi is also work there. I mean, it's a place that is very cold and very long distances and, of course, people there have been maybe a little bit more reluctant, but yeah, having people like that being engaged and showing how it's done around the country is important as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and again, without wishing to get into too much of your kind of organizational detail, but I know people will be interested and that's quite an enterprise. You've got, you know, quite a headcount. You're doing a lot of work. That all, of course, costs money. You also run the Nordic EV Summit. I know that for a fact because I've had the joy and the privilege of being involved in a couple. So that's a commercial enterprise. It's incredibly well organized, well supported and well run. So obviously you have people in the exhibition hall, you have sponsors and you have that wonderful stage where you have people from all around the world coming and talking about what's gone on.
Speaker 2:Let's not dwell on what happened in the past and I have to tell you the fact I couldn't make the date this year because it clashed with something else. I've got to be frank. I burst into tears when I found out I didn't video it. I didn't tell anyone at the time, but I'm now confessing I was so disappointed because it's such a productive gathering. It's not just let's all go somewhere nice, it's about business. It's about looking at how to couple, you know, how to put joint ventures maybe together with people. It's a very commercially inspired show and I like that. I think we should see more of those. Tell us about the next one coming up then. When's the next Nordic EV Summit?
Speaker 3:You shouldn't be too sad because the Nordic EV Summit coming up will be even better than this year's Summit.
Speaker 3:I think it's already yeah, it's going really well. The program is getting really full already. We have a lot of really great speakers from not just from around Europe but also outside of Europe, a lot of interest and we are expecting more than 1500 people. And I think what's unique about the Nordic EV Summit compared to many other conferences on electric mobility is that we try to combine the different topics regarding electric mobility. It's not just cars or just charging, it's also including energy, battery production, minerals, everything that's needed to discuss and look into, and charging, obviously, but everything, and also politics. So we try to sort of mix people, because mixing people is important if we want to drive things forward. So it's quite cool that you can meet a whole lot of different people, and that's why we also try to have a very cool social program. Next year this is in April the networking dinner will be at the famous Oslo Opera House and there's a lot of things like this going on, so it's a really good networking arena as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's the. Is it the third, fourth and fifth? Is that the date, fourth and fifth, sorry of April?
Speaker 3:Good question. I think it's third or fourth or fourth. Yeah, it's Thursday and Friday, being away from April.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the fourth and fifth. I'm cheating because I'm looking down at a calendar. So there you go. Well done, well. Look one thing again I'm sure people listening would love to know. You clearly are very confident in what you do. You've really made a difference. You have a great team and I know you're the first person to talk about the team, the organization, the association. You know not just yourself, but can you tell us a little bit of what did you do before all of this? Have you always been some sort of campaigner or something? Well, who was Christina Boo before? She was the big cheese at the Nordic? You know EV association.
Speaker 3:Yeah well, who was I? I've actually been working with electric mobility since 2007, where I started my first job. Yeah, so I. That was also the first time I tried an electric car the Norwegian thing so I've been sort of working on electric mobility since I really started working really.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but now I've been heading the Norwegian EV Association for almost 10 years already, so it's a little bit, it's a bit crazy, but I think it's also because when I started we were, I had six employees when I started and now we're more than 50. So it's, the job has changed year by year, which makes it very interesting and fun, or else I don't think I would have stayed on in the same job for this long, but it's keeps. It's keeps, you know, being challenging and there are always new challenges ahead. So and as you say, I have a very fantastic team and I think that's one thing that I'm good at is hiring people. There's so many good people, very engaged people working here, so I have very, very good, very good help with everything we do, and we do a lot of I didn't mention half of what we do. We also work quite a lot internationally, for example. So there's yeah, it's, it's really, it's a really fun place to to be and to work.
Speaker 2:Well, in that description, what you're clearly saying to us is you personally, and, of course, the organization, has got a vision, you've got a mission and you really have a purpose. That's clear in all of the things that you're doing. And if you have those three things in any business, you've, you know there's a flag to follow. You've, you know, you've, you've got that, you've got that sense of purpose and direction. So I think the 10 years that you've been at the helm and, yeah, growing the business incredibly it is you are an entrepreneur. It may be an EV association and all the things you've described, but to my mind, you're an entrepreneur. Christina Hope, that's okay calling you that. Have you been called that before?
Speaker 3:Well, at least we are. At least, I mean, it's been a lot of innovations and a lot of commercial work as well. To put it, we're a non-profit but we need to be commercial and if we, we compete with big players, for example, when it comes to charging, our charging service that we offer our members on, on roaming, for example, and a lot of other things. So it's it's increasingly difficult also because, you know, when I started almost 10 years ago, there was nobody else that really cared. We were only the only one writing really about EVs, for example. So so today that this is a all a, really, you know, a whole different ball game. So we, we have to sort of be clever and smart, because we don't have the same marketing budgets and the same sort of we, we, yeah, we don't have investors, for example. So we have to be quite creative and innovative. And the whole organization, I think, is because that's all we know we've always been developing and and innovating, or else we would have been dead several years ago.
Speaker 2:Well, well, look, anyone running a business, understanding you know what headcount is what, what payroll is, what all of those very, very, very important and significant things are with any business, will have great empathy with you, christina. And having taken the business to where it is and there's no doubt in my mind that you know when people talk about chicken and eggs, you know when two things sort of come together Norway would not be the force to be reckoned with it is in terms of the electric vehicle revolution If your organization hadn't been around, which brings me onto this question how can other countries find the opportunity to create what you have, what you've just described, what, what's, what's been up and running for some time now? Because, clearly, if I'm an EV owner and you see it a lot on Facebook or on Twitter or X, whatever it's called these days, or all those different platforms where, where people are asking questions what do I do about this? Does anyone know how I can find this charger? My EV is not doing that.
Speaker 2:It's all, all over the place, quite frankly, and I think anyone that then checks you out, checks out the Norwegian EV Association, would be incredibly envious, because you nicely bring together all of that, create this community and, yes, very powerful. So how can? How can a country I'm not going to pick one, but you know there is an EV Association in England, by the way but I don't think it's as well. It isn't as mature and mature as your organization. But what advice have you got for anyone listening in a particular country who might be thinking I want to, I want to do that. I'm going to set this up what, how?
Speaker 3:where do they start? I think you pointed something important. We see that in countries around the world where they have EV policies in place, very often it's also a bit of a bottom-up demand. It's not just something that politicians certainly made up and made happen. There's also someone from the civil society or or EV associations that have been working for it, and there are several examples of other EV associations, some of them we have been in close dialogue with over the years and that has started to really make an impact in other countries.
Speaker 3:So I would, I would suggest, organize yourself and be professional and work politically and, little by little, try and and get members aboard so that you have, you know, the economy to work politically.
Speaker 3:And this is really One of the international projects that we are have been running now for a bit more than a year.
Speaker 3:Well, we've been working on on the same topic for some time, but now we also got have gotten some funding to do it from from climate works in the US, and that is yeah.
Speaker 3:So that means we were actually Working concretely with some countries to to develop, help develop and also establish EV associations in in a few different countries around the world, and because we see that having someone strong enough to to be a part of the debate really and to suggest policies and and to represent consumers is very important in every market to make things speed up, and one great example is, for example, is Costa Rica. Costa Rica is the country in all of America's that have the highest market share of EVs it's at 11% and this has a lot to do with the Costa Rica and EV Association led by Sylvia, which is really really clever, and they are Talking to the politicians. They have members that pay a membership fee and they do a lot of different, yeah, activities and are very sort of visible in Costa Rica, so that country is really Speeding ahead as one. That's just one example that I wanted to share with you.
Speaker 3:So I think this is important, that it's also a bit of a bottom-up push and it's not just yeah, in a society, you always need this connection between politicians and civil society to make things happen faster.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you're probably describing some of the culture of Scandinavia. I guess I'm not from that part of world myself, but on the occasions that I do find myself In Norway, and of course there are other countries in the Nordics. I know you're just all about Norway, but I can mention Sweden or Denmark, all these other countries I mean. Take Denmark, for example. They were world leaders in the development of wind power. Without some of the innovators, individuals and organizations in In Denmark in the early days, we wouldn't be where we are with renewable energy, particularly wind, around the world. So yeah, there is some, there is some great innovation from what are, let's be honest, relatively small countries in terms of population. So it's, it's clearly something that you're good at doing organizing and all those sort of things.
Speaker 2:Can we shout out a couple of other people who I find personally inspiring? I know you do and and are absolutely on the world stage. You almost alluded to one there a moment ago in terms of Costa Rica, but Monica Araya and I was, as has done work with you, chelsea Sexton likewise, and then you've got people like image in bogel here at fully charged, and I think another aspect of the electric vehicle revolution that's really significant is A better gender mix, a better representation of opinion, ideas, knowledge and experience, because I've been in the auto industry a long time. I am an old man. I've made the confession.
Speaker 2:There you are. The sad truth is the auto industry has been massively dominated by men. It doesn't make us bad people, you know we do our best, but it's not a reflection of society, which, of course, is essentially 50-50. And I think having an industry where you've got a much better reflection of what society is, just from gender alone, not withstanding all the other things, I think this is really, really positive. Is that something you're conscious of focus on, think about? Or is it just get the best person to do the job and there you go?
Speaker 3:Absolutely. We focus on diversity a lot when we hire in. We are almost 50% women working here, and I think that this is something that the car industry has been for a long time, really, really bad at focusing on.
Speaker 3:Because, it doesn't help innovation if everyone thinks the same. Where everyone thinks the same, they think little. So having more women and also other, you know, not just women, but diversity in general in any workplace and in any industry, will spur innovation. So that's something that people need to think about and I agree with you. I see more. It seems like there are more women engaged in the car industry, talking about the car industry, when it comes to electric mobility and so on. So I think that can actually help a little bit, but we're still far off in our way. I think the percentage of women working in, you know we don't have much car production, we have, but when the dealers and importers and so on, I think it's 7% women. It's hilarious. Yeah well, it's incredibly bad.
Speaker 2:It is, and I made a documentary with Imogen recently about motorsport second episode of a thing called Motorsport of the Electric Age and one of the engineers, william, said something which I really liked. I hadn't heard it before, young lady, and she said you've got to see it to be it. And I kind of thought, yeah, it's so simple and that is it. So for kids at school. But for young people watching videos on YouTube about you know, whatever their interest in engineering, business, whatever if they're not seeing people like you and Chelsea and Monica and all these other amazing people, then they're not. They're thinking, well, how can I do that then? But if they see you're a great example is what I'm saying. Being a role model is really important.
Speaker 3:That's true, and it's also transferable to electric mobility in general. Seeing is believing, and I think that's probably the most important sort of success story when we talk about Norway is that Norway has shown that it's possible. So, with a market share of 83% in a country far north where it's really ridiculous that we should be the top of the world when it comes to the percentage of EVs, I think this has meant that other countries are starting to think well, if they can, maybe we should start looking into doing something too, and that's the same with solar panels and windmills and everything else. When it comes to innovative industries. It's seeing is believing and it's really to understand that it's actually possible, so that I think it's the same with gender as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that example thing seeing is believing thing. You're so right now. We're recording this just before Christmas and I'm sure you've seen it. I know lots of people have seen it the example of Julie and Chris Ramsey driving from the North Pole to the South Pole in an electric vehicle. It's like you can't make it up. They are one crazy couple.
Speaker 3:And they're still married. They're still married too.
Speaker 2:Well, it would appear so and it's extraordinary. And I know they in the past have done other things. They did my son's done this the Mongol rally. They've driven from the UK all the way to Ulaanbaatar in Mongolia, northern China, across 24, 25, 26 countries. He did that in an Isan leaf, as I recall. They did it. They're a couple. They've clearly I mean they've clearly got a great. I'm not sure I could.
Speaker 3:I don't think you should. Don't get into that, let's not get into that, but we actually just wrote about them on lbilno, our webpage. Elbil is electric car in Weitsen.
Speaker 2:if anyone wanted. Yeah, so Elbilno. They're not far from class with language lessons in 13. Perfect.
Speaker 2:So and we cited you, Roger, Because, yeah, so you're in the article- Well, I shouldn't be, because they're the superstars and I think it's not only of what they've done and on the journey, with lots of education, lots of all the things you've described have they been busy with. But I'm quite sure now they have one story to tell. Well, more than one story, but they will be able to use this now as a platform to illustrate people about charging when it's subzero, about overcoming adversity, about planning, about just taking a different approach and to life.
Speaker 3:So, roger, what is the most important thing to think about? If you charge subzero, then Do you know?
Speaker 2:no-transcript. Oh, do you know? You put me on the spot, haven't you?
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:I mean preheating your batteries always yes, exactly yeah. And how do you for?
Speaker 3:example, if you're yeah, but then, especially if you're approaching a fast charging station, use the system in your car. Tell the car that you're charging there so that it will preheat the battery. Yeah, and approximately 30 minutes at least before you need to sort of. So use the charging planner in your car, if the car has that solution.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:That's a good tip.
Speaker 2:That's a very good tip, but of course let's be frank and we're not going to go through a list. There are some electric vehicles, software systems and otherwise protocols are charging that are better than others.
Speaker 3:Let's be definitely we're not going to. Yeah, we're not going to go there.
Speaker 2:Let's not open the can of worms.
Speaker 3:But I want to. I want to if it's possible. I would like to share some good news from Norway. Do yeah please do Back to politics, because it's been a little bit slow this year, I must admit we're we're having the market share for passenger cars electric passenger cars hasn't really gone up very much, but we are very hopeful for 2024 because we managed to get through some new policies and some tax changes that we think will help a lot and we will definitely pass 90% next year and maybe even 95% percent.
Speaker 1:I think.
Speaker 3:But another thing that we managed to get stated in the budget, which was just sort of agreed upon, is that Norway's new goal for heavy duty transport now is that from 2030, 100% of new trucks should be electric or go or use biogas. So that's very, very good and something that we need to start working on here now. So we're not, we can't just focus on on on passenger cars. We need to focus on all vehicles, trucks, boats and everything. So, christina, we're very happy that we managed to get this, get this goal decided.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm happy too, because you truly are pushing on an open deal with me when it comes to not being cars. My journey began same time as yours, 2007, with electric trucks, and I've always believed still do that the real focus and the massive effort should be on commercial vehicle fleets taxes, buses, vans and trucks. Generally speaking, they are the ones that are the culprits for most of the airborne pollutants that are in and around people in our towns and cities. So, given there's always as you well know, and I'm sure our friend listening here on the podcast knows there's always been a twin imperative with electric vehicle revolution, which is to create clean air to enable the progress, acceleration of clean air in our towns and cities, as well as the reduction of CO2 into the atmosphere. It's always been both of those things, but certainly the clean air proposition is achieved far quicker if we accelerate the adoption of the commercial vehicle fleets. So you're telling me very good news. I completely with you on that. Yeah, you don't need to persuade me. That's good, Easily done.
Speaker 2:Look, we could talk about lots of other things. I would recommend, certainly to anyone in a country thinking we need an EV association. Well, come to the Nordic EV summit in April. Yeah, do Talk to Christina Booth.
Speaker 3:There are several EV associations coming there and meeting up, so if your new association wants to meet us, let us know. It's a bit of a meeting point for EV associations from around the world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I said at the beginning, it's very much a commercially focused proposition. This is a nice place, to be for sure, and if you haven't visited Oslo before, great excuse to go there. But it is a place where you're focused on getting business done, making progress. It's not just let's go and have a party. I'll be disappointed at the end of it all If we've all worked hard enough there isn't a party. But yeah, we'll leave that for another time.
Speaker 2:But, christina, let me just close by saying, on behalf of our listener hopefully more than one listener, but let's call them the listener I'm half the listener Thank you for what you have done and your team have done, what you've all done together in Norway, because it is an example to many other countries of what can be achieved. So, yeah, on behalf of all those people, thank you very much and I look forward to seeing you in April in Oslo, and hopefully our listener will be there as well. So would you like to say a final word just in terms of I can't wait. Maybe not Christmas message, new Year message yeah, message for 2024. What would that be from you?
Speaker 3:That would be that electric mobility is coming, or is already here, in my case. So just believe in it and work to make it happen even faster. And, yeah, have a very merry Christmas. I'm really looking forward to it anyway, so I hope the rest of you do too.
Speaker 2:Wonderful. Thank you very much, christina. We'll see you again soon, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to the show and make sure you follow Roger on LinkedIn, where you'll discover almost all there is to know about the spectacular electric vehicle revolution.